Talk: Guilds Guide

Questions: I'd be happy to update this list, but I wondered does any guild get added. For example a couple only have one or two members. Do they still go on the list? Also just noticed that This page also has links to guilds. Do we really need both? Should I start linking guilds on the guild themes page? Don't want to do a bunch of work that we don't need. Thanks! Kanzenhoshi (talk) 21:39, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

I find this page to be better organized than the Guild Themes page--I'd see whatever content is missing from here on that page, transcribe it, then redirect that page to this one. I'm also leery of any attempt to put a comprehensive list of all guilds together, since anyone can create a guild at any time. As you hint, a bottom limit on membership before it goes here would probably be my choice of action, but I'd put it somewhere relatively high (like say minimum, 30 members) before it gets documented in this list. Thepeopleseason (talk) 00:27, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

Also, I'd move away from the tabular format, because it's inconsistently rendered on the page, to perhaps the

definition list: definition

format. Thepeopleseason (talk) 00:31, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

@Kanzenhoshi: How to get indents to work: Go into the classic editor and define a definition term with a semicolon at the start of a line, then indent the definition with a colon at the start of the next line (other portions may follow).

Example:

Guild Name: Guild Description; Expected Challenges; Keywords

Also, I still see the value in the having the Expected Challenges and Keywords sections.

I felt they were pretty useless especially since most of the expected challenges sections and keywords could be found straight in the description or the challenges were. None/not many expected. But I can go back and re-add them. Kanzenhoshi (talk) 12:07, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm... that makes sense. I suppose if you encounter a worthwhile expected challenge that's not mentioned, go ahead and incorporate it in the description. Thepeopleseason (talk) 13:38, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

Will do. Hopefully I will find time tommorow to finish up. Thanks for the advice! Kanzenhoshi (talk) 02:56, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

@Kanzenhoshi: Are you using any third-party software to compile the guild list? It's bleeding unnecessary HTML into the output. Thepeopleseason (talk) 01:24, June 8, 2014 (UTC)

Nope. I type up the guild name in whatever category I think it fits best and hyperlink and bold the title after joining the guild and then just copy and pasting the descriptions straight from the habitRPG public guild list. Then I indent that description. Then I tend to leave that guild and move to the next one. Its a slow process but I couldn't find a better way to get the hyperlinks, descriptions, and formatting. Do you think the copy and pasting is causing that problem? I could hand type it if necessary. Some of the descriptions are pretty long. Sorry about that. Let me know if you think that is what is causing it. I don't know html very well so I don't think I would know what the source is. Kanzenhoshi (talk) 02:50, June 8, 2014 (UTC)

That sounds like the culprit. Don't worry about it too much--it's easy enough to remove in a decent text editor. I was just wondering if there was a way around it. Thepeopleseason (talk) 15:38, June 8, 2014 (UTC)

Hello, first talk contribution from Mara the Marine Marauder here, I hope I'm doing this right... About having both the Guild Themes and Guilds Guide wiki pages: I asked Alys in chat about it and she said:

"[The Guild Theme page] predates the Guilds Guide. Ideally, it would have been edited to turn it into the Guilds Guide, but now that they both exist, the Guilds Guide should be expanded to include anything necessary from the Theme page (it might already have it all) and then the Theme page can be deleted."

So that's probably the next big to-do here... I'll add this to the Guild Themes Talk page, too. --Mara the Marine Marauder (talk) 14:20, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Any idea how to order the guilds within the subcategories? By size? Alphabetically?

Mara the Marine Marauder (talk) 11:05, September 1, 2014 (UTC)

The guild "On Hold" is intentionally not on the list, and shouldn't be on the list. Please don't add it! (I asked the guild leader/creator/guild wiki page writer Breadstrings, she prefers it that way.)

Mara the Marine Marauder (talk) 11:37, September 1, 2014 (UTC)

Segmentation[]

Dear All! Thank you for supporting the page!

I've tried to make some statistics about the current situation with the guilds.

Number of members	Number of guilds*	Share of guilds
10000 and more	1	0,21%
5000 and more	5	1,04%
2500 and more	6	1,25%
1000 and more	15	3,13%
500 and more	29	6,05%
250 and more	36	7,52%
100 and more	65	13,57%
50 and more	63	13,15%
35 and more	40	8,35%
34 or fewer	219	45,72%
Total	479	100%

Numbers below or above do not include each other, except for the total line.

So I'm absolutely convinced the threshold of the middle-sized guilded should be raised up to 50 or even better up to 100 members. Thus, we'll have 27 Great Guilds (1000+) and 130 Medium-Sized Guilds (100+). I believe the number of medium-sized guilds should not exceed 150. This limit should not be applied to the language-oriented guilds. Neither should it be an obstacle for the guild leaders to add the guilds to the list themselves.

What do you think?

WikiaSphinx (talk) 17:04, April 28, 2015 (UTC)WikiaSphinx

I'm not sure it's worth the ongoing effort of keeping the definitions updated according to the latest stats. 35 members is a good size for a reasonable chance of ongoing conversations and I think that's as good a definition as any for the small-to-medium cut-off.

I definitely wouldn't want to change the classification of a guild based on how many guilds are in that classification. For example, if we have 150 medium-sized guilds and a new one becomes popular enough to make it 151, we shouldn't drop one of the original 150 out of that category, because it would still be just as popular as it was originally (assuming of course that it still had as many members as previously).

LadyAlys (talk) 05:29, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

OK! Let's keep it the way it is now! And thankyou @LadyAlys for regarding my question!

WikiaSphinx (talk) 10:43, April 29, 2015 (UTC)

Made relatively insignificant grammatical corrections. Thank you for these stats! Rhizomatic78 (talk) 20:35, February 2, 2016 (UTC)

Notifying Guilds[]

If you enter a new guild into the Guilds Guide, change a guild description, or move a guild into another category, it is usually a good idea to write a post in this guild's chat asking them if it's ok, and to please message you if it's not.

There are basically three cases where this is important:

Some guilds aren't in the Guilds Guide because, so far, no one got around to putting them in there. Others intentionally aren't in there because they don't want to be found so easily. (I know at least two of the latter.) (There is even a category of guilds that, by default, "don't get asked": The language guilds always go into the Guilds Guide - they should be made easy to find for native speakers.)
Some guilds don't have exactly the same description in the Guilds Guide as in HabitRPG because the Guilds Guide description is outdated, and no one got around to updating it. Some guilds intentionally have different descriptions. (One of many possible reasons: The HabitRPG description is longer and more playful, and the wiki description is shorter and more matter-of-fact wiki style.) Current examples are "The Challenge Sandbox" and "Ghost Ship".
Some guild leaders and members have their own (not necessarily always correct) opinion in which category they should be. Example: There's currently a guild called "Mastering Buddha". Both description and chat suggest that they are mostly about mastering emotions. There's not a single discussion about Buddhist theology/philosophy in chat. They'll probably have opinions about whether they should be listed under "Religion/Spirituality" or not. (They're not in the Guilds Guide yet, and as far as I know, nobody asked them yet - so it's not a very good example. I have a strong suspicion that they (1100+ members) aren't in the Guilds Guide yet because nobody wanted to make that category decision!)

If it's unclear if a wiki entry (or non-entry) is as it is because no one fixed it yet, or intentionally, there are several things a wiki editor can check:

Contact the guild members and, hopefully, leader (guild chat).
Contact the guild leader by private message.
Look at the Guilds Guide history and find out when that entry was made, and by whom, and if that person left a helpful comment. (Btw., the changes are much easier to find if, when someone changes a guild's entry, they write the guild name(s) in the comment!) You could also contact the editor of that entry.
... and/or, of course, talk with other wiki editors about it in the "Wizards of the Wiki" guild or here on this talk page.

Umm... so far, I wrote this down like a guide, as if those were fixed rules, and as if I was an expert on the subject, or had any authority concerning it. That isn't the case. My apologies if it sounds like that at first - I just wanted to make the basics easy to look up. Actually, much of it is from talk in the "Wizards of the Wiki" guild, and much of it is just my opinion. If someone with more "wiki authority" reads this - feel free to delete my comment completely, copy and change as much of it as you like, and then make a comment with your signature under it - then it's a more official guide/set of rules!

(Mara the Marine Marauder (talk) 08:04, May 27, 2015 (UTC))

I am currently updating the Guilds Guide's list - first I've added guilds that fit the categories we have here, and then I've read that we should ask before - I hope two days won't make a big difference, I will ask each guild listed here now about whether or not they want to be listed here, if so then in which category, are they happy with the category they're currently in or not, and finally, about updating their guild's description here. I am currently working on this.

The real tenko (talk) 19:02, January 22, 2016 (UTC)tenko

Unlisted Guilds[]

I was planning to add a few of the larger guilds to this list, but the fact that at least two (apparently) have already asked not to be on it, but I have no idea which two makes it a little awkward. I'm happy to contact guilds and either ask permission or let them know that I've put them on here, but that might get annoying for them if that happens multiple times. Could there be a list on the talk page of guilds that have asked not to be included?

The Unexpected Shroom (talk) 14:09, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, good idea. Also the leader's name and UUID, and the approximate date on which they said they don't want to be included (or today's date if the real date is unknown); that will let us ask again later if the guild leader changes. LadyAlys (talk) 04:36, August 27, 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, I wrote the comment (on May 27, 2015) saying that I know of at least two guilds which don't want to be in the Guilds Guide. One was On Hold (I'd asked guild leader @Breadstrings a short while before), and one was Pirate Cove which I'm guild leader of. (I'd rather not have it in the Guilds Guide because a pirate cove has to be at least a little bit hidden, and it's more adventurous if you have to find it first, and also, if someone isn't able to find it for themselves, they're probably not that good at sailing the guilds list and finding inactive guilds there, which is one of the main things the pirates do.). I'm trying to remember if, in the meantime, I've encountered other such guilds - I think not, but I'm not sure. But if so, there were only one or two, and the question/discussion "guilds guide or not?" is probably still visible in chat there. Mara the Marine Marauder (talk) 05:45, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

List of Guild Owners' Statements[]

There is a requirement to ask a guild leader for his/her opinion prior to putting the guild on the Guilds Guide list, because they may not want it listed - such is the case with the Pirate Cove and the Elven Grove for example.

Therefore I have contacted the leaders of the guilds both listed and not listed in the Guilds Guide asking them 3 questions (see below). The last question is actually a plea not a yes/no question, and it's optional, modeled after the Guilds Guide page talk above mentioning such format, I'll advocate it for the sake of this guide's clarity - some guilds in the Guilds Guide's list have -no- description, and some have a very long one, which is unnecessary for the purpose of this guide alone, and can be shortened up while keeping the beautiful and elaborate description in the guild's description.

The message sent to the Guilds Leaders is as follows:

good day! ^^

i am writing to you because you are the group leader/owner at the [name+link] guild.

i am currently updating the guilds guide - i have a few questions:

do you want your guild mentioned in the guilds guide?
if yes, in which category would you like your guild to be mentioned?
if yes, please write a -brief- (up to 4 lines of text) introduction that would represent and in a way advertise your guild there plus a 1 line description of the challenges this guild has / may have / will have.

thank you very much for your time! ^^

have a good day!

tenko

Below I will be pasting the guild leaders' responses, which should be seen as their intent regarding their guilds' presence on the Guilds Guide list (the answer to the 3rd question, the guild leader's desired description of the guild, can be seen on the Guild Guide - I won't be pasting them here cause that would make this page impossibly long):

Anxiety Alliance, group leader @beffymaroo, February 5th, 2016

"1/ Yes 2/ Support"

Autistic Adventurers' Guild, group leader @iamtheeyesinside, February 4th, 2016

"1/ Yes 2/ Support"

Aspiring Legends: Habitica Helpers, group leader @SabreCat, February 2nd, 2016