Talk:Guidance for Scribes

I populated this article with a rough framework just to get the conversation started. If anyone wants to take a first stab, we could then edit until we've got something everyone likes. Any thoughts? Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 20:53, December 6, 2013 (UTC)

Mission
To help us with the Mission question, here's a brainstorming list to add to. What do we care about? What do we want the wiki to be? I edited @Xatres first pass at a mission statement to focus on the product of our labor rather than on the how. Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 17:07, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Easy to use
 * easy to find info

Tone
I've always been deliberating as to whether I should refer to the players as "you" or simply as "the player." It gives off a completely different feel and I feel it should be made systematic across the board for the sake of consistency and flow. Project21 (talk) 04:45, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

It depends on our aim. Do we aim to be informative like wikipedia or a "how-to" wiki? Breadstrings (talk) 03:57, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

That's a good question @Breadstrings. I think if we answer the question of what we're trying to do that that will help inform HOW we do it. That said, there are lots of ways to accomplish a goal. An additional question that I'd ask is, "Do we look to the game as an example and follow its tone or create our own?" Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 04:04, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

I guess that depends on the article then. A lot of our stuff is a combination of both and it would seem radical to take either extreme, but at the same time, it feels really odd switching from second to third within an article itself. The game gives off a pretty enjoyable and fun vibe, and perhaps we can mimic that to a certain extent. I wouldn't want all wiki pages to resemble pages from a textbook, but at the same time, it shouldn't be too casual either. Perhaps we can create two broad dichotomies of articles: 1) Information Based and 2) How-to. With the first, the article should be written in third person and with the second, it should be written in second person. I think this will help create professionalism and accuracy where it is needed the most, while leaving a more relaxed and enjoyable read for articles that concern self-improvement or the other how-to categories. Project21 (talk) 04:45, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Article length
Question: How do players use the wiki? Are they coming from in-game for a specific answer or reading generally? Does this affect how we write and organize the wiki? Bobbyroberts99 (talk)

See Talk:Perception for an example. Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 16:48, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

My impression from Tavern talk and forums is that they come for both reasons (specific answers, or explanations of game/major features).

Ideal article length in my opinion would, for main features, give enough information that users don't have to click a lot of links to get a good grasp of the concept. Some shorter articles addressing specific questions would also be good. My 2¢.Wc8 (talk) 18:55, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

The shorter articles, which people presumably reach by using the search bar, will usually link to (and be linked from) the large overview articles. Having shorter articles helps the user get a quick answer, but also lets us go into more depth on a (presumably) small subject - for example, Buff has some unique information that isn't relevant to the Class System as a whole. It could also be helpful to have articles for each class - Warrior, Wizard/Mage, Healer and Rogue, so that we can present each class as itself rather than only in comparison to the other classes. --Malkin (talk) 04:59, December 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Malkin, I agree about the individual class pages. I think it might be helpful to include rather than link in some cases. I'm testing Bobbyroberts99's :ArticleName code for including short pages in those cases. These pages can be linked to directly, for example, from FAQ and Glossary pages. —Wc8 (talk) 17:42, December 19, 2013 (UTC)




 * I think it'd be helpful to link back to the class system from the smaller pages - explain that Strength is something in the class system - for people who use the search bar to enter the wiki. As the 'Getting Started' is currently right-aligned, under an ad, and half covered by a Wikia widget - 'What kind of fan are you? Take our survey and find out!' - on my screen, I find I almost exclusively use the search function to get into the wiki. --Malkin (talk) 22:25, December 19, 2013 (UTC)

Glossary/Defintions
I’m wondering about creating defintion templates/articles, length 1 sentence to use on multiple pages and glossary. see Talk:Glossary  —Wc8 (talk) 20:14, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Screenshot Copyrights?
What kind of copyright issues do I need to be aware of before uploading a HabitRPG screenshot to the wiki? --Malkin (talk) 22:55, December 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Screenshots have the same copyright as the work they've been cut from. HabitRPG's copyright is CC-BY-SA 3.0, which is actually the same as this wikis copyright. So there are no issues; maybe put the right tag on when you upload it and note that it's from HabitRPG, but I doubt anyone will care. (Necessary disclaimer: IANAL, just a Wikipedian who worked too much on copyright.) Nepenthe88 (talk) 03:57, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! --Malkin (talk) 04:19, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

@Malkin, I think this would be a good question to ask on the documentation card on Trello so @lefnire sees it. Tyler is a bureaucrat on this site, so I'm pretty sure we're ok, but if you want to be sure... Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 04:27, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

I should have been clearer. CC-BY-SA means that anyone can use HabitRPGs content for any purpose, as long as the creators are attributed (that's the BY) and the final product is released under CC-BY-SA (that's the SA). So, any screenshot that's attributed as coming from HabitRPG (following BY) and is published on this site (which is licensed CC-BY-SA, so check for SA) is fine as far as copyright is concerned. The creators' opinion is, post licensing, irrelevant; they could possibly change to a more restrictive license, but the screenshots that we've taken up to that point would still be fine. I could write up an explanatory article if y'all think it would be worthwhile. Nepenthe88 (talk) 04:44, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, please, that would be wonderful, Nepenthe. --Malkin (talk) 05:16, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Is it possible to add something to the licensing drop-down in the upload section which says 'This is a screenshot from HabitRPG'? --Malkin (talk) 22:42, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

British English or American English?
Which vocabulary is more properly used on the wiki? Is American English the standard (personalize, honor, center, etc.), or are people using British English (personalise, honour, centre, etc.)?MekanikStik (talk) 19:29, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

Oxford Comma
What is the consensus on using Oxford commas? MekanikStik (talk) 18:50, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

AP Style is considered best practice for writing on the web, providing the most clarify and standardization of style and grammar across pages and posts. This would eliminate the use of the Oxford comma from pages, though it's still owner preference in this instance. Matravnos (talk) 18:48, February 5, 2014 (UTC)matravnos

@matravnos thank you for the clarification. Much obliged. MekanikStik (talk) 18:50, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Formatting
Wiki admins can edit css here.

Headers
Quoted from page is unclear. Should infoboxes have their own section? Seem different from headers. Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 18:49, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Individual item pages should have a infobox with an image, the tooltip description, and buy/sell prices - instead of listing this info in paragraph form. Example code for the template is as follows.

I think it's a good idea to use headers liberally because they make it easy for players to find what they're looking for by breaking up articles and creating TOCs. Bobbyroberts99 (talk)

Padding for h2 thru h5 is set to 1em 0 0 0 (which I'm guessing is 16px on top and 0 everywhere else). Using em for font-size, padding and margins allows browsers to adjust proportionally relative to the user's browser base font (or at least that's my understanding). We can also easily tweak font-size, font-style and font-weight for each level very easily using css.

=Example of H1= Used for Article titles and on main page, this level should not be used in articles. Level 2 is actually the top level heading in articles.

Example of H2
H2 is bold and biggest and has an underline. Suggestions?

Example of H3
H3 is bold and a little smaller. Suggestions?

Example of H4
H4 is bold and italic and still smaller. Suggestions?

Example of h5
H5 is baby-sized and italic. Suggestions?

All header sizing is currently wikia default. I'm not sure about bold. What do people think? Bobbyroberts99 (talk)

Capitalization
What should be capitalized? Copied from Talk:FAQ by Bobbyroberts99 (talk):

Do we have a standard for capitalization of words?

For example:

Your Dailies are tasks that should be completed daily. Uncompleted Dailies with cost you Health. Completed Dailies earn you Health, Experience, and either Gold or Silver. They may also cause a Drop.

In the above, all game-related words are capitalized. I see a couple entries where they currently are not; should those be patched up?

Francehopper (talk) 22:32, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

My vote is NOT to capitalize every word but don't have strong feelings. Whatever's easist to make consistent wiki-wide. Anyone else? Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 23:56, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, it doesn't matter to me. I've seen games do it in the past, which is why I brought it up. Just wanted to know before I start going caps crazy while proofreading.

Francehopper (talk) 03:23, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad this came up. I agree with @Bobbyroberts99, on looking at it. I think maybe only capitalize article titles, in which case probably also italicize them. For example,


 * Wizard is a class. You can read more about wizards in The Class System. 


 * Complete your dailies, or suffer consequences. The article, Dailies, is important.

My 2¢ Wc8 (talk) 04:12, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

P.S. unless that's too much trouble. Wc8 (talk) 04:14, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Capitalise article titles if they're going to be a link, perhaps, but not otherwise? I've seen (I think) some people putting article titles into italics, but it's not consistent and therefore not obvious that that's what the italics are for. Nutter (talk) 21:47, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Any thoughts on capitalisation within titles? "Join and participate in a challenge" vs. "Join and Participate in a Challenge", for example? (I'd go for the latter, personally; but it'd be nice to be able to standardise it one way or the other.)  Nutter (talk) 18:52, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I like the latter too. It seems more formal and professional. MekanikStik (talk) 19:17, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

Borders
Can we standardize tables with css? Which tables are good examples of what we want to use? Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 18:35, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

@Bobbyroberts - I've just been using the "add table" button on the right. It's been a while since I css'd but adding class="article-table" seems to pop tables that weren't formated the same into this style. Adding them is easy enough that people don't need to go into the source tab if that scares them, and decent looking as well. Sonoris (talk) 18:57, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

Images
Should we decide on a uniform way to display gear? Half the classes have the whole avatar dude with the item, and the other half just display the item not worn. (I kind of prefer having an avatar person there for... scale? So you see how it fits better than the item floating in space, but... that's just me. Sonoris (talk) 12:14, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Format
All images should be uploaded as PNG.

Categories
Do we discuss this? Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 19:20, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

As a newbie, I would absolutely love a clarification of what categories are appropriate where. Please? Sleepykit (talk) 20:11, December 12, 2013 (UTC)

Do we want images categorising? I'm entirely happy to do monotonous things like stuff all the Pets images into a category, if folks think that's a good idea. Kitbeard (talk) 18:02, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe one way to proceed would be to create a google spreadsheet with all the categories and the questions they answer/purpose they serve so we can surface types of categories and any dupes. I'm not sure how much categories are getting used by readers though. Wikia says readers generally don't like being directed to a category page so none (or maybe one) of the menus link to categories. Where I do think they are useful is identifying pages that are stubs, needs changes, are under contruction or a part of the WikiLiveChallenge (although I think we might be duping a bit at this point). There are several places on the wiki that link to those categories so that scribes can easily find the articles that need work.

At this point, everyone is just sort of creating and assigning categories as they see fit. I don't see any real harm in this. Maybe answering the question, "What question does assigning to this category answer?" is a way to help sort it out.

@Kitbeard, who do you envision asking "Show me all the pet images?" If someone will ask that question, maybe a Pet images category makes sense, but I'm not sure how often it will get asked and if it's worth the time.

Hope that makes some sense.

Bobbyroberts99 (talk) 18:21, December 18, 2013 (UTC)

It's possible that someone might want to see 'all the images on this wiki' for copyright reasons, or to check if what they're going to upload is unique or a duplicate. --Malkin (talk) 01:09, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

IMO, categories are just good practice in organizing a wiki. I don't know where HabitRPG is going to be going in the future, but if we assume that there will be more and more features and history to record, the wiki will eventually become too large to navigate by going to Special:AllPages. Plus, Wikia's interface doesn't, as far as I can tell, provide any easy way to group or navigate non-article pages, like files and whatnot. I propose starting a list of categories in wiki-namespace here: HabitRPG wiki:List of categories where we can organize a category system in a central location. Pages, space, edits, and categories are free; I don't think we gain much by restricting ourselves in categorization. Nepenthe88 (talk) 21:36, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

I would ask for all the pet images. Personally, it's nice to have complete clarification on everything, including what pets look like and what sort are available. Rowan Law (talk) 20:47, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

This article itself is still listed in the "Stub" category - that seems a bit out of date, should it be changed? Nutter (talk) 22:03, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Anything else?
For non-style related how-tos, the HabitRPG Wiki:Community Portal has lots of suggestions.

Spellings - I'm assuming the wiki is standardised to American spellings. Is that the case? (I've not had cause to write anything that would highlight the difference, but would tend to use American spellings here in keeping with game design.) Nutter (talk) 21:52, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Default Pronoun
Edited this out a couple of times: can we agree (and add to the guidelines) that "he" shouldn't be used as a default pronoun? Instead, a pronoun should be avoided, or a gender neutral pronoun, such as they? Deilann (talk) 16:37, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

I actually like "They" as a singular pronoun. It takes getting used to for a moment but it works really pretty well after that. I am hunting down an MLA style guide to see if it has anything to say, but I think we should be good with "they". I found this link as well which backs up to your suggestion. 00:36, January 18, 2014 (UTC)Sleepykit (talk)

How to Add Videos?
Is there anything special we need to do when adding a video to the wiki? I'd love to add the 'how to add a quest' tutorial video to the Quests page, (much like the how to pixel videos are available on the Guidance for Pixelists page) but I'm not sure how to upload it, if there are any copyright issues, etc. --Malkin (talk) 22:51, January 16, 2014 (UTC)